Gilon 3010

Shadowrun game in an alternate, homebrew universe.


    The Astral Plane

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    The Astral Plane

    Post by GameMaster on Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:48 pm

    Wujen wrote:Ooc: Astral Sight would make the box look "translucent" if something alive were in it, just as the rest of the world fades out except for the aura of living things, kind of like clothes don't stop you from seeing a person's aura.

    5e doesn't really do a great job of explaining what you can see on the astral plane (at least not in the sections I have found on the subject, but indexing is awful in the books, so I may have missed something). All it really has to say on the matter is:

    Living things in general are not active on the astral plane but still cast a reflection of themselves there. This reflection is called an aura; it appears as a shining, vibrant, colorful luminescence. Any non-living objects appear as faded semblances of their physical selves; grey, lifeless, and intangible.
    Anything active on the astral plane, including spirits, active foci, dual-natured beings, etc., has a tangible astral form. These forms are more colorful and brighter than auras, as they are astrally “real.” The Earth has an astral form, and many regard this as proof that the planet as a whole is a living entity apart from (or made up of) the creatures that inhabit its surface.

    It does not say that non-living things are translucent, but it doesn't not say that either. Just says they are intangible, which means you can go through them. But according to 4e's street magic, "non-living objects do make opaque shadows on the astral which can block line of sight," also "mirrors and glass on the astral plane are opaque and non-reflective, since those are concepts associated with visible light." So I wouldn't think you could see through a box on astral because it has no emotion tied to it. The reason you can see through clothing is because it is a personal item that absorb's the owner's emotion (which is what you are "seeing"). I suppose in theory you could project and poke your astral head through the box to see what is inside if it were a large enough box with enough space inside for you to see something other than shadow. Hitting something solid would be a good indicator that there's something magic or living in there though since those are tangible.

    Mostly I reference the wiki entry on Astral Space. It cites the 5e book at the bottom so while 5e may not specifically restate the stuff above, I don't believe it has contradicted it either so it's what I am going with.
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    Re: The Astral Plane

    Post by WuJen on Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:42 am

    Shadow is also a concept associated with light.  Should not need it to 'see' in a dark space, like the inside of a box.  Not that I'm sticking my head in there.  By the same token, Astral Perception isn't a function of eyes either, it's a different sense altogether.

    Objects reflect their intent.  Everything on the Astral plane reflects how people perceive the item.  An unfamiliar object that held things would be perceived on the Astral plane as an unfamiliar container, assuming enough living things knew it held things. 

    A Box containing something dangerous would likely give impressions of that danger.  No one cares about a cardboard box, but if it's full of money then the box will assence as a 'box' of 'wealth'.
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    Re: The Astral Plane

    Post by GameMaster on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:06 pm

    Oh, I am not saying you need light in the box to see in it, just that you need enough space for your face not to be in the contents of the box when you look in there. Like if it was filled with a block of styrofoam, you poke your head in there, all you would see is black because there is no space between the shadow to make out anything. If the box was completely empty, you would be able to poke your head in and see the space inside.

    And yes objects hold the emotions of people that handle them, that's why your clothes don't block your aura. The auras on unheld objects are extremely faint though and actually picking them up really is the scope of the psychometry metamagic rather than plain assensing.
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    Re: The Astral Plane

    Post by WuJen on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:44 pm

    I'm just saying that Astral Perception has nothing to do with my face.  It's not based in your eyes, though I suppose an argument could be made for the brain itself.

    I'm also saying a box containing a Live Mouse would look different than a box containing a child's toy, and both would look different than an empty box.

    The Live Mouse would generate it's own emotions from the living creature inside.  Fear when handled, Hunger, maybe Confusion...all of which the Assensing skill would tell you is a living thing.

    The Child's Toy would most likely be very faint, though stronger than the empty box. Assensing might get you an impression of import, but not much else.  Psychometry would get you all kinds of information.

    The Empty box would have very little impression at all.
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    Re: The Astral Plane

    Post by WuJen on Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:33 pm

    Sense Link---  I has it with Little Dragon.

    Does that include her perceptions of Astral Space?

    If so, when using her senses would I use her intuition and assensing skill or my own?  She gets 4 dice and I get 8.
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    Re: The Astral Plane

    Post by GameMaster on Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:01 pm

    It takes a simple action per sense you are trying to use. I would say that her astral perception would be included if she is currently either on the astral or perceiving. However, while I can't find anywhere in the book that specifies what kind of action assensing is, it says:

    Core Book wrote:A character can attempt to read an astral signature with an Assensing + Intuition [Astral] test. This is not the simplest task, as perceiving and understanding an astral signature is somewhat difficult amid the mixture of magic and emotional background of the astral plane.

    So I would probably rule that assensing is a complex action. Since you can't do simple and complex actions at the same time, I would say you can't assense through her senses. You could however ask/command her to do it through the link. So it would be her using her skill at assensing instead of yours.
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    Re: The Astral Plane

    Post by WuJen on Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:39 pm

    yeah, that's why I asked. Things aren't clear.

    As far as I can tell she is at best dual natured. Being a spirit I don't think she's ever not perceiving on the astral plane. I know her realistic form makes her look physically normal but it does not fool astral perception.

    So I assume when I share her senses it includes astral information.

    Assensing essentially replaces Perception in the INT+Perception skill test.

    I just have no idea how to handle it or what information might be available if I send her out of the car in astral form and use the Sense Link ability to see what she sees.

    I can see an argument for her INT+Assense… that's what she sees.

    I can see an argument for her INT+ My Assense… I see what she sees, but have my own understanding.

    Add to that the weirdness of Astral Perception and it's inherent load of intuitive and emotional information.

    Of course the description of Sense Link is no help on this. It says that I can experience one of her senses as a simple action, but even if that sense were simply sight, it does not say who's dice we would be using on a test.

    Observe in Detail is a simple action. Straight up INT+Perception.

    On Page 313 of the core rules it says:

    Like physical perception, you don’t need to make a
    test to see things that are immediately obvious (and since
    astral forms are bright and vibrant, this means that most
    astral forms are easy to spot). You only need to roll the
    dice when your target is trying to hide or when you’re
    trying to observe in detail—then you make an Assensing
    Test to see what you can see

    Which still does not really cover Who's dice we are using in a Sense Link, just that Assensing seems to be the astral equivalent of "Observe in Detail".
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    Re: The Astral Plane

    Post by WuJen on Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:29 am

    Frak…..   I just read, I think in the core book, that the Int+Assensing test was a simple action...  I'll have to see if I can trip over it again.
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    Re: The Astral Plane

    Post by GameMaster on Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:05 pm

    Let me know if you find it, because I'd like to know one way or the other.
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    Re: The Astral Plane

    Post by WuJen on Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:39 pm

    Found it again.  Page 312 at the bottom.  It's actually on the same page as your quote above:

    The Core Book wrote:
    While astral perception allows an Awakened character

    to sense the astral plane, actually interpreting what you’re

    looking at takes practice. Interpreting auras to gain information

    about the person or thing to which they belong is

    called Assensing. If you want to learn more about an aura,

    you may make a Simple Assensing + Intuition [Astral]

    Test, with the number of hits determining how much you

    learn (details are on the Assensing Table, p. 313).

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    Re: The Astral Plane

    Post by GameMaster on Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:21 pm

    cool. there we go. Someone needs to organize that book better.

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