Gilon 3010

Shadowrun game in an alternate, homebrew universe.


    Moving Foward

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    WuJen

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    Moving Foward

    Post by WuJen on Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:28 pm

    This seemed a better place to discuss things than the Karma Rewards thread.

    Some of us are concerned with Power Creep ruining the game, and specify using spirits and sustaining foci as a major cause of such.

    Being the only current potential user of spirits and sustaining foci, I somewhat disagree, as 90% of my abilities rely on being able to sustain spells.

    I'll be the first to agree that no one wants to see the game get trashed due to power creep.

    All I can really promise is to not cast sustained spells on others, if this is an issue.  I don't have the option of power points or cyberware, nor do I care to use drugs.  Spellcasting and Spirit Summoning is what I primarily bring to the table, with a focus on group utility.  I don't think it's reasonable to ask me to ignore options that prevent me from becoming effectively a vegetable for using my abilities.

    Sustaining a spell imposes a cumulative -2 die penalty on every action I take, not just spellcasting.  Just as a for instance, a not unreasonable loadout for just me would be Increased Reflexes and Physical Mask.  This leaves me 2 dice on most any check that isn't casting a spell, assuming I'm not defaulting.  Among the other utility spells I might bring to bear are Levitate, Physical Wall, Healing, or Mind Probe... any combination of which, without availing myself of some other options for sustaining a spell, would leave me effectively comatose.

    Even better, most of what I would need sustained on me in a combat situation needs to be in place before combat begins.  It does very little good to wait until after the shooting starts to boost my reflexes, or if I had the armor spell (I don't yet specifically because of the limits on spell sustaining) waiting until after I'm shot to armor up.

    For the moment I won't pursue much in the way of sustaining spells.  I don't have the karma to spend on it in any case.  But I can't promise moving forward I won't be looking at options for at least myself, because I can't just initiate into Wired Reflexes or drop some cash to upgrade my abilities.  My abilities are spells, and using them is what I do.
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    RafV

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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by RafV on Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:25 pm

    For me, I play as a character, with its strengths and flaws. Of course I'll keep the game mechanics in mind, but I want Sun to grow as a character, not as a set of stats. The game is about how a group of characters deal with situations, not about how a set of numbers beats another set of numbers. So if it makes sense for the character to have plenty of foci, character-wise, then I don't really mind. If it's "I can boost this or that stat up by getting this focus and then I can boost that with that, so I can spam fireball five times per turn", then hell no.
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by WuJen on Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:33 pm

    What I was suggesting was a stopgap that you can afford.  Essentially I'd let you buy the focus, and 'cut you a deal' by using it at cost to sustain an Improved Reflexes.  When you outgrew it I'd be happy to buy it from you, because I never will outgrow the need for such things.

    Eventually you will either want a Power Focus that gives you the reflexes, or to outright purchase the power for yourself.  Adepts are popular because it's pretty easy to power them up.

    Since I am not an Adept I can't just buy power points.  I don't care for Mystic Adepts anyway.  I will always depend primarily on spells to power up, and those spells need to be sustained.  As such I personally will never outgrow the need for Foci, Spirits or various limited abilities to keep my important spells sustained.  That's just how Magicians work.
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by WuJen on Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:47 pm

    Personally I find it gratifying that you didn't take any sort of Improved Reflexes.  The spell does not stack with other abilities that do the same thing, so you and I are the only ones that can benefit from it.  As far as I can tell it's actually unique among the buffs in that regard, all the others add to whatever you already have as far as I can tell.

    You would probably really enjoy Grow.  It makes you (optionally) bigger, and increases Body, Agility, Reflex and Strength.  Takes a lot of hits (3 per +1 to all those mentioned), but is only a single spell being sustained, which is good for me.
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    RafV

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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by RafV on Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:53 pm

    Man, I can already see an elf with Mr. T-style bling bling around his neck, all foci Laughing

    I appreciate the thought, btw, and am very glad to see that amount of team spirit. Sun would be a bit embarrassed and ashamed if he'd have to boost his physical capabilities that way, though. Let's see if there's a way for him to grow faster within himself, instead. Balance-wise, that seems better, too. Sun hits hard, and he can take a serious punch. Typically speaking, you got two kinds of fighters: Those who hit like a sledgehammer: slow but majorly destructive, and those who are like wasps: a thousand needle stings which add up. At our current level, having a character that does a thousand sledgehammer hits... Either the GM will adapt difficulty, meaning certain death for everyone else, or Sun just waltzes over everything. Either way, it would kill the fun. Maybe later on he can be faster, when everyone else is more powerful too, but for now, it's best this way. Temporarily boosting speed through spells from team members, like done in both fights, is of course okay, as it allows more interaction between everyone.
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    WuJen

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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by WuJen on Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:26 pm

    Distinctive Style.  I already kind of look like that, except that none of the foci are real.
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by GameMaster on Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:16 pm

    (on this note, I am going to clear the posts from the karma thread because I prefer it to just to be a record of your karma so we have a quick and easy reference when new people join or if any of you die and need to make a new char)

    Wujen wrote:Eventually you will either want a Power Focus that gives you the reflexes, or to outright purchase the power for yourself. Adepts are popular because it's pretty easy to power them up.

    Adepts can get more powers from qi foci. Power foci temporarily up your magic rating, which may affect some of their abilities, but don't grant any new ones.

    Wujen wrote:Personally I find it gratifying that you didn't take any sort of Improved Reflexes. The spell does not stack with other abilities that do the same thing, so you and I are the only ones that can benefit from it. As far as I can tell it's actually unique among the buffs in that regard, all the others add to whatever you already have as far as I can tell.

    I think Torpor is the only one in the group with improved reflexes or any other kind of initiative booster. Sato used edge to up his init in the last fight, everyone else has plain init for their meat bodies (matrix and rigging is another story). Considering most fights are pretty quick, using edge is a good option for init, particularly for humans who tend to have more of it. It is what Harumi did to keep up with Sun, at least for the first round. Didn't expect the fight to last longer than 1 round tbh.

    Some of us are concerned with Power Creep ruining the game, and specify using spirits and sustaining foci as a major cause of such.

    I am not overly worried about it. So long as everyone has something they can contribute and you don't end up with one person being overly ridiculous. A few sustaining foci aren't going to break the game any more than an adept with powers or a sammy with 5.9 essence worth of cyberware (which I find weird that we don't have at least one of considering how many people we have).

    That said, the game isn't meant to be super combat based, so don't focus overly much on combat. I threw in a few here just to show how they will go when they do happen. I do plan on it being possible to get through many of the runs without a single fight, if you use your heads.
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    Torpor

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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by Torpor on Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:16 am

    I also wanted to take a moment to say ...

    OMG ! AWESOME JOB ON THE WORLD, JOB, ETC. !!!

    I absolutelty LOVE it.
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by GameMaster on Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:21 am

    Thanks, I appreciate the compliment. Very Happy
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by winkingchef on Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:36 am

    Yes, agree with Topor 100%.
    I think it is a credit to your worldbuilding that I came in with a very fixed idea for a character and completely changed it when I read the mentor spirits section and was inspired by it to build something completely different.
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by RafV on Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:40 am

    Yup, Sun's idea first was being a sort of super martial artist who got his powers from a mentor spirit. Checking the world, it gave everything to make him a regular (albeit very good) martial artist who dreams of going all Wuxia. The entire place, with the whole focus on spirits, is just perfect for it! And then Sanji there... The world is rife with possibilities
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by WuJen on Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:52 am

    It caught me a little by surprise that heremetics are a thing in the setting.  I had to reconsider some of how I approached it, because much of my mindset on Heremetics actually comes from the old White Wolf Mage Heremetic Tradition, and Classic D&D Wizards.

    So I'm Local, but not a Shinto Shaman.  I imagine most formal training in magic of the area comes from the Shinto Priests, and that Heremetic Magic is more of an outsider thing that came from folks across the sea.  I don't have formal training, I'm a Street Mage, strong in some things, utterly lacking in others.  If I had leaned Shaman then training would have been easy and readily available, especially as I am gifted with spirits and Kami are almost literally under every rock.
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by GameMaster on Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:05 am

    The reason for hermetics is they are kind of like the scientists of the magic world. Other traditions are more religious and spiritual and their abilities are primarily based around faith, while hermetics approach magic like a puzzle that needs to be solved or a tool to be wielded. They are more likely to be into corp magic research than a shinto priest.
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by WuJen on Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:16 pm

    Yeah, but I would have expected local (eastern) magic to be Shinto and Wuxing, while the more mechanized western civilization brought, or developed as they were not really magically inclined, Heremetic magic and possibly Shamanism and a few of the other traditions due to their differing beliefs.

    Amusingly, I just read that Wujen are what the practitioners of Wuxing are called.
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by GameMaster on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:00 pm

    WuJen wrote:Amusingly, I just read that Wujen are what the practitioners of Wuxing are called.

    You mean you didn't pick the name intentionally? I assumed that's why you chose it.
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by WuJen on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:19 pm

    I knew it was an Oriental sorcerer of some sort. Didn't realize it was specifically for Wuxing, which is the logical based Oriental tradition in the magic book.

    You said the world was Asian, with shaman and heremetics and a specific set of mentors. I didn't even look at anything else.

    I picked it assuming it was an Asian version of Wizard or Mage, a generic term. Not a specific thing the way Druid or Voudoun would be.
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by GameMaster on Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:28 pm

    In case you guys didn't notice, I made contact entries in the contacts thread for contacts you have made during this adventure. I'll be putting group contacts there and updating their loyalties as you go along.
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by WuJen on Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:13 pm

    Just saw the news report.  The picture of the Jaingshi behind bars was probably a lot more funny to me than it should have been.  Smile

    I was mildly disappointed you didn't include Mikuzumi.  I was looking forward to seeing what kind of picture you found for her.  I got the name from a website describing Japanese Sorcerers in folklore, and apparently she was a variety of Kitsune, though she didn't appear as a fox thing until after she was hunted down after an emperor's death.
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by GameMaster on Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:15 pm

    WuJen wrote:Just saw the news report.  The picture of the Jaingshi behind bars was probably a lot more funny to me than it should have been.  Smile

    I was mildly disappointed you didn't include Mikuzumi.  I was looking forward to seeing what kind of picture you found for her.  I got the name from a website describing Japanese Sorcerers in folklore, and apparently she was a variety of Kitsune, though she didn't appear as a fox thing until after she was hunted down after an emperor's death.

    She didn't stick around for interviews Wink
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by WuJen on Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:16 pm

    I meant in the contacts section

    You got Crazy Carl, news girl and the dryad
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by GameMaster on Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:20 pm

    Oh, that's because I didn't throw in every contact that you guys purchased through chargen. If I get ambitious, I might
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    Re: Moving Foward

    Post by WuJen on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:50 pm

    I thought you might have worked her up because Sato likes her as well.  I originally wasn't going to make her an AI, just wanted an expert on magic that I talked to online, but came up with the AI idea when I read the story that I got the name from.  The whole creature pretending to be human thing appealed to me.

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