Gilon 3010

Shadowrun game in an alternate, homebrew universe.


    A new runner in town

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    Torpor

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    Re: A new runner in town

    Post by Torpor on Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:56 pm

    I've been married for 22 years.  Screaming and yelling at me does not get me to clean the house.  As a matter of fact if im to get yelled at no matter what why waste the energy.  
    Now if i want my friends to come over and hang out i need to be pro active and clean and she makes it a point to make sure i know that.  Tends to work way better than yelling and if i want to do something i have to do things that i know i don't want.  She yells , i walk away, not interested.  Similar tactics, find something they want or need by interacting and roleplaying.  Then use that information against them.

    In a way is like examining your battlefield before combat,  cover,  line of fire,  targets,  threats, etc. It really isn't just 'o i shot the ganger' does he have friends,  will others hear the fight,  what's nearby,  will i have help of needed.  That's ask stuff you should assess before jumping someone.  If you don't you are bound for failure.
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    WuJen

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    Re: A new runner in town

    Post by WuJen on Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:15 pm

    Here is the thing.

    Let's take your example of diplomat vs. door bouncer.

    Diplomat wants into the club. Club owner is hosting some mob bosses, has left specific instructions that after a certain time no one else is allowed in. There is some superficial traffic to keep up appearance though. Diplomat tries to talk his way in, but gets rebuffed as letting someone in at this point could cost him his job, at the very least.

    At this point you don't break down into hysterics, nor just double down on you just Reeeeeealy want into the club, so be a bro and let me in, or try to grab his nuts unless you have made a decent roll to know that he will respond favorably to that.

    You have to shift the value of being let in. Part of those social skills will tell you that a heafty bribe is called for, or maybe offering to do something he will really enjoy...*inside*. So you make the offer... how difficult it is depends on what you offer, how bad he wants it, how likely it is he will get caught letting you in,and what happens to him if he gets caught letting you in.
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    WuJen

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    Re: A new runner in town

    Post by WuJen on Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:40 pm

    It does not matter if your diplomat has 4 dice, 12 dice or 20 dice...  That bouncer isn't letting you in just for asking, and as a Face you would know that.

    It is the same with a gun.  You can't hit the target unless you are actually pointing a gun at the target.  Just cocking your fingers and saying "bang" really loud won't cut it.

    So you try to persuade.  You offer a cash bribe.  Your roll will determine if he is persuaded that you have offered enough cash to offset the potential loss of his job weighed by his estimation that you will do something to get him caught.

    Gamemaster has been pretty good with the feedback so far, letting you know that what you are offering is insufficient and indicating if the target is getting calmer or angrier.

    So the Bouncer didn't immediately take the offered cash.  You reassure him that you won't do anything to get him in trouble, that you will just blend in and enjoy some music.  You continue your extended roll to see if his estimation of his danger has shifted enough to make the current bribe worth it.

    Gamemaster might give you some insight at this point that the guy seems like he is genuinely scared of what might happen if there were an incident inside, but that he seems like maybe a little more cash might persuade him.

    You continue trying to persuade him, perhaps providing him with a couple of smooth lines to give his boss if anything were to go down.  The roll again helps determine if the value of the current bribe is sufficient.  A poor roll might convince him you are trying too hard to avoid looking like trouble, or it might convince him that nothing bad will happen to him from letting you in.

    This continues, incrementally until the situation is resolved.  But it's not always going to work in your favor regardless of how many dice you have.  Sometimes the bouncer quite simply can't let you in, and can't be persuaded to let you in.  Just like sometimes the target is out of range of the gun.
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    GameMaster
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    Re: A new runner in town

    Post by GameMaster on Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:10 pm

    Alright, your problem isn't a matter of how many dice you are throwing at a check. Kingfisher's problem in game is the same problem you are having in this thread. You don't listen to what you are being told and make up your own non-existent problem to fix. Every single person who has posted here has given you the same advice and you keep ignoring it all and try to blame it on the dice. IT'S NOT THE DICE.

    You complain that there is no feedback from the npcs to give you an idea of how you are doing, but there is. You just are choosing to ignore it and react like the world is being unfair to you. The priest even said you guys could come in to see the tree before you started attacking him and treating him like an idiot. All you had to do was NOT do that and you would have at least been into the area with the tree.

    Kingfisher's responses don't make sense when compared to the situation that she was in. It is the combat equivalent of the GM saying there are 2 humans attacking you and you respond by saying you shoot the troll. But there isn't a troll. There was never a troll. So no matter how many dice you throw at that troll, you aren't going to hit it. Complaining about your dice pool is not going to get you anywhere.

    No one has said that you can't easily fast talk your way past a bouncer who doesn't give a shit about his job. If you were attempting to do that, it would be damn near impossible to fail with the number of dice you have. But in no universe does acting like a lunatic that is off their meds convince anyone of anything other than the fact that you need to get Baker Acted. It doesn't matter if you have 10 dice, 100 dice or 1000 dice. If you don't act like a rational human being, people don't treat you like one.

    If it is too hard for you to understand that reacting to what is being said like a sane human being is the bare minimum requirement for a successful fast talking attempt, then you aren't going to get anywhere as a face.
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    KingFisher

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    Re: A new runner in town

    Post by KingFisher on Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:16 am

    It's probably easier if I turn KingFisher into an NPC and move on.
    I guess I'm not cut out for pbp face duty.
    Cheers guys, keep playing.
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    RafV

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    Re: A new runner in town

    Post by RafV on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:21 am

    If I recall correctly, at the end of mission 1, we can respec our characters. Maybe you can make Kingfisher more into a spellcaster instead of a face?
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    WuJen

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    Re: A new runner in town

    Post by WuJen on Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:28 pm

    Spellcasting isn't really a role, so to speak.

    You basic roles are:

    Close Quarters Combat-- Usually focuses on Melee, but the main duties are engaging close threats to keep enemies off team members with different roles. Often also function as scouts as stealth and fast movement complement their skillset by allowing them to close to melee efficiently. Magic: Physical Adepts, Touch Spells, Possession Tradition conjuring. Mundane: Melee/Pistol samurai, Crawler Melee/pistol drones. Honorable Mention to technomancers with the skintrodes echo sucking you into the matix with a touch and blasting your helpless self with attack programs.

    Fire Support- This is your ranged specialists. They are usually responsible for picking off distant enemies and area interdiction through either keeping enemies pinned behind cover or using suppressive fire. Magic: Gunbunny Adepts of all flavors, Combat Mages focused on sorcery with emphasis on combat and manipulation spells. Mundane: Weapon Specialists, flying drones with longer ranged weapons, and vehicle mounted weapons including indirect fire weapons.

    Infiltration- Getting into and out of places, preferably undetected. Social Skills can shine here, as well as a good foundation in breaking tech. This role compliments pretty much everything and works great as either a secondary role for those who specialize elsewhere, or as the primary role with nearly any secondary you choose to name. Magic- There are a ton of spells especially in Illusion and Manipulation, and a whole lot of interesting Adept powers. Mundane- This is an incredible pairing with rigging with many of the tech skills overlapping. Faces shine here using impersonation and seduction. Practically a solid third of all gear deals with this.

    Investigation- Vital to the team, though not often a strong combatant. It's a solid secondary role for almost anyone, pairs well with boots on the ground Matrix types. It relies as much on contact networks as it does raw perception skill, and benefits a lot from background skills. Magic- Plenty of Detection spells and the unique benefits of Astral Perception are useful here, as well as many Adept Powers. Mundane- Skill in the Matrix for searches are obvious. Less Obvious are Chipjacks and libraries of background knowsofts. There are lots of Sensors in gear, and riggers can shine with networks of spy drones and software packages that look for specific things.

    Magical Support- I guess this would be your 'spellcaster', but honestly it entails more. The job is basically dealing with magical problems, from Astral Threats to wardings and astral barriers. You almost have to be awakened to do the job, and have astral perception to boot, though there is a very little bit of gear available if a mundane wanted to take this on as a tertiary role. It's less about casting spells and more about neutralizing magic. Spell Defense, Bansishng, and Astral Combat are the workhorses, with Weapon Foci being a strong second line. Mundanes can benefit from Magical Background skills and at least know how to recognize and avoid magical dangers, if not directly counter them.

    Matrix Support- This is the other end of the spectrum, and does not play well with magic. Primarily tasked with repelling opposition matrix threats and keeping your gear unbricked, they are also needed for keeping communications secure and for neutralizing or subverting opposition assets through hacking. Magic-There's a bit that can be done, mostly in enhancing the caster or his chosen agent to be better at the job through spells like Increase Attribute and Analyze Device. There are some Adept Powers like Attune Item and boosts to mental attributes as well. Mundane- this is almost the sole province of those who are not awakened... Datajacks and other cyberware eats into essence, which really only bothers the awakened. Lots of builds for this, and except for technomancers it all requires a ton of money.

    Negotiation- This is the heart of the Face. Nearly everyone can benefit from at least a little ability in this area, but the specialist is expected to be able to get the best out of Johnson, help acquire gear in a timely fashion, and smooth the way for less socially acceptable team members in delicate situations. Magically there are a number of ways to assist in this role, from Detections to know what your opposition wants to Manipulations to make the opposition want things. Mundane approaches involve things like tailored pheromones and voice enhancements to make you more appealing and Emotitoys to help you read your opponents intentions and desires.

    Transport- The heart of traditional rigging. Getting the team and their score from one place to another with as few additional holes as possible. This is another tech friendly area, with magic being relegated to a really weird Niche. Magic options are similar to Matrix support, boosting the operator more than the machine. Mundanes rule the field with VCR and RCC.

    Medical- Usually seen as more of an afterthought, I've based several characters with a variety of approaches around being the team medic. Magically there are the obvious Heal spells to back up First Aid. From the Mundane side this pairs well with Matrix Support and Rigging, as Medkits can be operated remotely and there are a few drones specifically designed for medical support, like the Evo Orderly which is basically a walking hospital bed with built in Medkit.
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    WuJen

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    Re: A new runner in town

    Post by WuJen on Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:41 pm

    Each role can be accomplished in a number of ways spread across the magic-tech spectrum, with only the 2 extremes of Magic and Matrix support really favoring one approach over others.

    When building a character you usually want to pick one to focus on and a second to fall back on.

    Life sucks when all you can do is blow stuff up, especially if Johnson specifically asks you not to blow anything up or you would prefer CorpSec not hold a personal grudge. The reverse is also true---life sucks when you can't blow anything up, especially when the anything stands between you and getting home to spend your NuYen.

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    Re: A new runner in town

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